Episode 3

The Retail Wave Makers | Simon Black, Newmark

This week, in episode 3 of The Retail Wave Makers, Nadine Heubel hosts her own boss, Simon Black, Executive Managing Director of Newmark.

Simon sheds light on his 23 year history in travel retail and the parallels that can be drawn between airport and cruise retail. He also shares invaluable insight into changing customer behaviour and habits, offering the audience predictions of upcoming trends in retail globally. Nadine and Simon discuss in detail the great innovation within the cruise retail sectors that sets a precedent for other industry's, and Nadine grills Simon about why he has never before taken a cruise!

Transcript
Nadine Heubel:

Hello to everybody from around the world.

Nadine Heubel:

Welcome to The Retail Wave Makers, a Seatrade Cruise Talks

Nadine Heubel:

Podcast. My name is Nadine Heubel. I'm the Senior Managing

Nadine Heubel:

Director, Travel Retail North America at Harper Dennis Hobbs.

Nadine Heubel:

But today, I'm talking to you as the Retail Ambassador for

Nadine Heubel:

Seatrade. Retail has been going from strength to strength in the

Nadine Heubel:

cruise industry. And I'm grateful for Seatrade to have

Nadine Heubel:

acknowledged this development by creating a retail Ambassador

Nadine Heubel:

role, which I am honored to have been appointed to. Part of my

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responsibility is to create further awareness for this

Nadine Heubel:

exciting sector amongst cruise industry peers. And what better

Nadine Heubel:

way to do it than creating our own podcast miniseries The

Nadine Heubel:

retail Wave Makers Podcast. In this podcast series, I will

Nadine Heubel:

welcome different stakeholders of the cruise retail industry,

Nadine Heubel:

cruise lines, retailers, vendors and consultants. And I will

Nadine Heubel:

discuss with my guests the state of the cruise retail industry.

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We have a lineup of amazing guests, and we will hear from

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them firsthand about latest innovations initiative

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challenges and their personal outlook of the future of cruise

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retail. And we will also get a little personal with our rapid

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fire questions at the end of the podcast. All my guests are

Nadine Heubel:

special. But today my guest is extra special. And I will tell

Nadine Heubel:

you why in a minute. But let me introduce him first. Our guests

Nadine Heubel:

in episode three is Simon Black, Executive Managing Director of

Nadine Heubel:

Harper Dennis Hobbs and Newmark company. Simon is an

Nadine Heubel:

internationally recognized travel retail authority. He has

Nadine Heubel:

so far enjoyed 23 year career in travel retail, working for and

Nadine Heubel:

with the world's leading brands and travel hubs. Simon started

Nadine Heubel:

his career at the British Airport Authority (BAA) and held

Nadine Heubel:

various positions in their retail division. In 2006 post

Nadine Heubel:

the breakup of the BAA Simon remained with Heathrow Airport,

Nadine Heubel:

and during his eight years with his rose, he led the

Nadine Heubel:

transformation of the luxury offer into the world class

Nadine Heubel:

proposition it remains today. Growing the revenue from his

Nadine Heubel:

category from 73 million pounds to over 250 million pound. Simon

Nadine Heubel:

can be credited with persuading Louis Vuitton to open their

Nadine Heubel:

first European airport store in Heathrow

Nadine Heubel:

terminal five. And this was their second airsoft store

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globally, and their first directly operated store. This

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store was to become really the first significant expansion into

Nadine Heubel:

global travel retail for the brand. After almost 10 years at

Nadine Heubel:

Heathrow Airport, Simon joined British luxury brands Meissen to

Nadine Heubel:

lead their travel retail and international business. He

Nadine Heubel:

joined HGH in 2016. And since then Simon has grown the travel

Nadine Heubel:

retail division at HGH into Europe's largest travel retail

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advisory business. And why did I say that Simon is extra special?

Nadine Heubel:

Well, first of all, Simon is my boss. And when does one have the

Nadine Heubel:

opportunity to welcome her boss on her podcast. And secondly,

Nadine Heubel:

Simon has never set foot on a cruise ship. But before I will

Nadine Heubel:

grill him about this, let's give him a warm welcome. Simon. Great

Nadine Heubel:

to have you on the show.

Simon Black:

Thank you, Nadine and what a welcome.

Nadine Heubel:

Thank you so much for agreeing to come on the show

Nadine Heubel:

here, Thank you.

Simon Black:

Sure. I just want to thank you know Seatrade and

Simon Black:

yourself for having me on the podcast. I think it's a great

Simon Black:

series so far from the ones I've listened to already. I think

Simon Black:

you've done a fantastic job.

Nadine Heubel:

Thank you. That means a lot. But now let's talk

Nadine Heubel:

a little bit about you. So could you share with us your scope of

Nadine Heubel:

responsibility? So what HDH exactly do and how is your

Nadine Heubel:

company or our company involved in the travel retail channel?

Simon Black:

So yeah, our company absolutely our company

Simon Black:

very much our company HGH is based in London, but we work

Simon Black:

very much internationally. Principally, we are a retail

Simon Black:

advisory business specializing in working with somewhere around

Simon Black:

200 different retailers, f&b brands, concepts and an

Simon Black:

operator's in retail. And we're helping them find you know, some

Simon Black:

of the best stores all over the world for them to create some

Simon Black:

amazing and memorable experiences. That's our

Simon Black:

principal core business activity. The travel retail

Simon Black:

division has been going since 2012, at HGH. And as Nadine, as

Simon Black:

you said, in your intro, we've grown over those years to

Simon Black:

definitely become you know, Europe's largest business in

Simon Black:

this sector. And we love helping brands build their presence and

Simon Black:

build their brands and travel retail in many different ways.

Simon Black:

We help them start shaping and developing their strategies and

Simon Black:

then implementing it. That could mean you know, helping them find

Simon Black:

stores and airports all over the world. That could mean helping

Simon Black:

them get listings on airlines getting their products and

Simon Black:

brands raised on board cruise ships, or in airport duty free

Simon Black:

stores. We also have a team within the travel team that

Simon Black:

specializes in working with airports and all over the world

Simon Black:

on their kind of commercial strategies. And you know, we're

Simon Black:

really, really focused on because we put the customer at

Simon Black:

the heart of any commercial strategy. And that's really the

Simon Black:

principles that we kind of employ when we're working with

Simon Black:

airports globally, making sure that the consumer is front and

Simon Black:

center of their strategy. We love helping airports and train

Simon Black:

stations and travel hubs to really shape their commercial

Simon Black:

strategies for the next five to 10 years.

Nadine Heubel:

Thank you for explaining. And of course, you

Nadine Heubel:

know, I'm a little biased, but it's great fun to be part of the

Nadine Heubel:

team. It's it's a great team. And it's amazing that I have the

Nadine Heubel:

opportunity to really expand what you have already started

Nadine Heubel:

developing now also into the into the Americas. So yeah,

Nadine Heubel:

great fun to be part of your team.

Simon Black:

Absolutely. And there's huge potential in the

Simon Black:

Americas. And as we're already kind of getting going, so it's

Simon Black:

fantastic. And you've been a great fit so far Nadine.

Nadine Heubel:

Thank you. But now let's, let's not talk about

Nadine Heubel:

me, we need to talk about you. So as mentioned in the intro,

Nadine Heubel:

you have not been on a cruise yet...

Simon Black:

Not yet!

Nadine Heubel:

And we'll talk about this in a second. But

Nadine Heubel:

I completely agree with you sometimes, you know, when we

Nadine Heubel:

let's talk first about your extensive experience at the

Nadine Heubel:

airport channel and working for an airport authority working for

Nadine Heubel:

a brand as we have heard and now also really heading up retail

Nadine Heubel:

consultancy company in travel retail. How has airport Retail

Nadine Heubel:

evolved since the time you started in this business 23

Nadine Heubel:

years ago, enormously, enormously and I think not just

Nadine Heubel:

airport retail a travel retailing genuinely has changed

Nadine Heubel:

enormously during that time. Like most things in life changes

Nadine Heubel:

constant and you find that some things move on and embrace

Nadine Heubel:

change and develop and sometimes others don't and, and that's not

Nadine Heubel:

too dissimilar to the travel retail channel, you know, that

Nadine Heubel:

we love and we cherish and we're proud of. For me, the two key

Nadine Heubel:

things that have changed in airport retailing over the space

Nadine Heubel:

of my career so far have been retailers and brands perception

Nadine Heubel:

of travel retail, and then any airports or even stations or

Nadine Heubel:

crews or airlines their commercial thinking. I remember

Nadine Heubel:

when I joined airport retailing I joined the old British

Nadine Heubel:

Airports Authority as it was was it was it was back then based in

Nadine Heubel:

the UK, airports were predominantly occupied by large

Nadine Heubel:

operators. You know, back in those days, it was had the likes

Nadine Heubel:

of Alfa and Nance and Royal Duty Free. And they used to run

Nadine Heubel:

everything in airports, the offer was poor, there weren't

Nadine Heubel:

many, you know, well known or high street brands, it was very

Nadine Heubel:

limited, then the environment that you know, airports offered

Nadine Heubel:

for those brands. It wasn't great either, you know, there

Nadine Heubel:

wasn't a good environment. And many brands didn't want to put

Nadine Heubel:

their brands or their products in that environment. And that

Nadine Heubel:

was a big barrier to entry for those those two components was

Nadine Heubel:

similar to the cruise industry, not just airport retailing back

Nadine Heubel:

then, the cruise the airline world and in any kind of the

Nadine Heubel:

channels in travel retail. I look back now over the last 23

Nadine Heubel:

years, not one to be specific. But that has all now changed. I

Nadine Heubel:

liken travel retail to the six continents of retailing, you

Nadine Heubel:

know two key components have changed as our commercial

Nadine Heubel:

thinking that the landlord's out there, you know, the operators,

Nadine Heubel:

their commercial thinking has changed. And brands and

Nadine Heubel:

retailers have really begun to understand the importance of

Nadine Heubel:

travel retail and how this channel can play a key role in

Nadine Heubel:

their in their businesses and in the strategies. We've seen

Nadine Heubel:

airports, they've changed their mentality, they've become more

Nadine Heubel:

commercially minded and focused. The changes in the aeronautical

Nadine Heubel:

revenues over the last sort of, you know, 20 years have forced

Nadine Heubel:

many airports, in some cases to become more focused on their

Nadine Heubel:

commercial revenues. And that certainly helped. But from both

Nadine Heubel:

sides, you know, from a retailer and a brand side on the airport

Nadine Heubel:

side, I think they really understood that there was an

Nadine Heubel:

unrivaled consumer base and travel retail. And this is one

Nadine Heubel:

of things I absolutely love. There really is, you know, there

Nadine Heubel:

are billions of people traveling globally, whether that's, you

Nadine Heubel:

know, for an airport on a cruise ship on an airline, there are

Nadine Heubel:

billions and where else do you get that kind of audience,

Nadine Heubel:

travel retail has then started to become seen as a showcase and

Nadine Heubel:

as a shop window for brands globally, and they really

Nadine Heubel:

started to embrace it. And this has been coupled with, as I

Nadine Heubel:

said, the change in airport environments. And you just have

Nadine Heubel:

to look at yesterday and Doha Hamad opening their new

Nadine Heubel:

extension in their airport and that is absolutely fabulous.

Nadine Heubel:

airport retailling and the environments when I joined 23

Nadine Heubel:

years ago were dark old terminals, low ceilings, there

Nadine Heubel:

weren't proper commercial plazas. These days. Airports

Nadine Heubel:

offer some of the best you know, retail plazas in the world. You

Nadine Heubel:

know, they have fantastic commercial offers. Don't get me

Nadine Heubel:

wrong, not all airports are great. And we've still got a lot

Nadine Heubel:

of work to do as an industry but the environments have changed,

Nadine Heubel:

you know, new terminal infrastructures Come on. And

Nadine Heubel:

when airports have invested in those new terminal

Nadine Heubel:

infrastructures, you know, the commercial the retail the F&B

Nadine Heubel:

talk about, like, what was 23 years ago, I feel quite old,

Nadine Heubel:

offers are now really integral part of that designing and you

Nadine Heubel:

then I hesitate to you know, reflect about 23 years, 25

Nadine Heubel:

see that in the in the in the design and the launches. I mean,

Nadine Heubel:

years. But on the other hand, as you also said, when when I

Nadine Heubel:

I said Doha Hamad airport is a great case study for that

Nadine Heubel:

looked at the pictures of Doha airport this morning, I felt

Nadine Heubel:

like oh my God, this is really amazing where we came and where

Nadine Heubel:

fantastic, stunning environment. Absolutely. If you're a brand or

Nadine Heubel:

the journey took us. I like what you said about that really

Nadine Heubel:

retailer, you want your brand to be in that environment. I think

Nadine Heubel:

change is constant. I think that's a very important one that

Nadine Heubel:

we really have to embrace change. And I think the travel

Nadine Heubel:

I've also seen over the last years is a mentality shift and

Nadine Heubel:

retail industry is really one which embraces change, and is a

Nadine Heubel:

in a changing behavior between airports and brands. There's new

Nadine Heubel:

very resilient industry as well.

Simon Black:

It is I wish we would embrace change faster

Simon Black:

collaborations. Airports have started less thinking like

Simon Black:

learning. There are certain areas where you always lag

Simon Black:

behind maybe domestic retail. There are some good reasons for

Simon Black:

landlords just collecting the base rents and I remember when I

Simon Black:

that, and some not so good reasons. Yeah.

Nadine Heubel:

That's true. So maybe let's talk about change a

Nadine Heubel:

started most of the Commercial income was coming from

Nadine Heubel:

little bit more than so what do you see as the biggest consumer

Nadine Heubel:

guaranteed minimums. And in some cases, it still is in some

Nadine Heubel:

trends? And how will they shape the travel retail industry going

Nadine Heubel:

airports around the world. But predominantly, now that business

Nadine Heubel:

forward?

Simon Black:

Well, as you know, Nadine, you know, now being

Simon Black:

part of HDH, it's, you know, we spent a lot of time looking at

Simon Black:

model has shifted, airports are working more collaborative, more

Simon Black:

what are the biggest consumer trends out there at the moment?

Simon Black:

You know, what, what's going to what the consumer is going to be

Simon Black:

like the department store model. They're working more

Simon Black:

doing in the next five to 10 years? And and how does that

Simon Black:

kind of link back to travel retail? There's two parts to

Simon Black:

collaboratively with brands and retailers. Because working

Simon Black:

this question. For me. The first one is some trends that we're

Simon Black:

together, you drive greater sales, and therefore you drive

Simon Black:

seeing right now. We call it in HGH. And I think it's widely

Simon Black:

greater commercial returns for both of you this kind of

Simon Black:

reported, you know, the fashion in wellness. But this is a huge

Simon Black:

trend. This is, you know, I think COVID has really

Simon Black:

question, it prompted me and I look back over the last 25

Simon Black:

accelerated this trend. In some ways, I think we're far more

Simon Black:

years, and I think one of the other bigger changes has

Simon Black:

health conscious, we're far more aware of it from a food and

Simon Black:

happened has been, apart from COVID, sadly hitting us in the

Simon Black:

beverage point of view, we're far more aware of where our food

Simon Black:

comes from, where it's sourced what we're putting in our

Simon Black:

last years, is that there has been consistent passenger growth

Simon Black:

bodies. And then from a conscious consumer perspective,

Simon Black:

in this channel, when I started, there was just under 1.5 billion

Simon Black:

we are now far more aware of where the products are coming

Simon Black:

from, you know, the brands we engage with, and I think for for

Simon Black:

passengers traveling annually. Now in 2019, just before COVID,

Simon Black:

retailers and brands out there. Now, it's simply not enough to

Simon Black:

it was four and a half billion, that's more than double. And I

Simon Black:

be sustainable. And you have to be ethical, you have to, it's

Simon Black:

all about consumption. You know, on this point, you just have to

Simon Black:

think those volumes, have really, really made brands and

Simon Black:

look at the amount of big brands and retailers out there now

Simon Black:

retailers you know, sit up and think about this channel. And we

Simon Black:

investing heavily in the resale business. This is part of being

Simon Black:

have a fantastic channel we have today for for those reasons I've

Simon Black:

you know, ethical and looking at your consumption and not being

Simon Black:

as materialistic as we used to be. And this consumer trend is

Simon Black:

just kind of outlined.

Simon Black:

with us right now, and is growing hugely isn't something

Simon Black:

that it's not going to die away, absolutely not going to die

Simon Black:

away, I mean, millennials and Gen Z, they will have grown up

Simon Black:

and they're going to be the affluent consumers to attract in

Simon Black:

the next 10 years. And these groups of people, they've grown

Simon Black:

up in a digitally enabled world, and they're far more better

Simon Black:

research than we ever were in the past. They are, you know,

Simon Black:

they understand the world, probably a greater than, than we

Simon Black:

ever understand it. And then you need to think about, you know,

Simon Black:

generation alpha, since those you people who were born after

Simon Black:

2010, and they're going to be the youth movement in 10 years

Simon Black:

time, your strategy is going to be focused towards them, you

Simon Black:

know, they're going to be engaging in retail in a

Simon Black:

completely different way. And some of the big consumer trends

Simon Black:

are, you know, going to continue rolling on, I think, you know,

Simon Black:

becoming growing importance in the next 1020 years, there is

Simon Black:

this big push back now against globalization, some of it sadly,

Simon Black:

has come about because of kind of the world we're living in

Simon Black:

right now with the conflict in Russia and Ukraine, with the

Simon Black:

energy crisis, and a lot of political instability

Simon Black:

everywhere, sadly, but, you know, consumers are increasingly

Simon Black:

looking now to find something special, they don't want that

Simon Black:

product that's sold everywhere, they want to engage with, you

Simon Black:

know, products that they can't find globally. They want to

Simon Black:

engage with brands that have a truly ethical and sustainable,

Simon Black:

you know, business and have it and have an amazing story. I

Simon Black:

think COVID Will it certainly done is as recalibrated the word

Simon Black:

sustainability or that whole industry. I mean, I think for

Simon Black:

the first time COVID really showed us the impact that we're

Simon Black:

having on our planet, you know, when planes were stopped flying

Simon Black:

pollution levels globally decreased, I think everyone was

Simon Black:

is increasingly conscious of that now and I think that is you

Simon Black:

know, going forward really going to shape and be it's such an

Simon Black:

important trend is something we absolutely all need to be

Simon Black:

embracing. Where this is kind of leading to is that you know,

Simon Black:

retail stores are no longer going to be those kind of

Simon Black:

necessarily those transactional places in terms of bricks and

Simon Black:

mortar retailing. I mean, they need to be you know, brand

Simon Black:

building, be engaging stores. You need to have members of

Simon Black:

people going to want to have memorable experiences and those

Simon Black:

are the transactions may not take placed in those stores any

Simon Black:

longer, but they are going to be the hub of of that brand and,

Simon Black:

and retailers and brands need to embrace that, especially with

Simon Black:

these three generations that are quickly coming upon us and

Simon Black:

they're going to be the future. It's all about investment in the

Simon Black:

digital ecosystem. That is where my kids are living today. And in

Simon Black:

every you know, anyone who's got kids out there that their kids

Simon Black:

are living in the digital world in the world in the metaverse,

Simon Black:

you know, in the decentraland. And it is increasingly going to

Simon Black:

be heading in that direction. We're already in broadly living

Simon Black:

in that world.

Nadine Heubel:

It is!

Simon Black:

When my five year old asked me Daddy, can I have

Simon Black:

some money pleased to buy a new avatar outfit, you know, it's

Simon Black:

astonishing is mind boggling for me. But that's the world they're

Simon Black:

living in and, and a huge amounts of money are already

Simon Black:

exchanged and placed in the metaverse and I think that's a

Simon Black:

big, big trend we're gonna see. And I also think what's really

Simon Black:

interesting is those hyperlocal living, we became grounded, we

Simon Black:

were forced to become a bit grounded. And we are all as

Simon Black:

consumers. Now, I think, you know, we're really conscious of

Simon Black:

our neighborhood, we're more so than probably we ever have done.

Simon Black:

And one thing that came out of it COVID probably gave was, you

Simon Black:

know, since checking out our local environment and our local

Simon Black:

ecosystems, we're now supporting more local coffee chains,

Simon Black:

restaurants and retailers. I think some of the big retailers

Simon Black:

out there are realizing this. And if you look at IKEA, for

Simon Black:

example, they've opened up some very, very small IKEA hubs, some

Simon Black:

places in London, and they're very, very local neighbor,

Simon Black:

specific stores, that's going to continue to the future.

Nadine Heubel:

Wow, thank you this was a lot of information

Nadine Heubel:

are really great and very insightful, as well. And they

Nadine Heubel:

are talking about constant change. I also feel like we're

Nadine Heubel:

listening to you with all the trends, it's like, I feel we are

Nadine Heubel:

in this huge change. You know, change has been with us all the

Nadine Heubel:

time. But I feel that this time, that change we are currently

Nadine Heubel:

undergoing is much more fundamental and much bigger than

Nadine Heubel:

maybe it ever has been.

Simon Black:

Many industries are experiencing change. You know, I

Simon Black:

think retail is probably experiencing probably the most

Simon Black:

rapid and radical changes of all, you know, consumer

Simon Black:

behaviors, technology, are driving an environment now that

Simon Black:

is, you know, online, they're creating heightened expectations

Simon Black:

for everyone. I mean, it's such a rapid pace of change in the

Simon Black:

retail industry. It's frightening, but it also so

Simon Black:

exciting.

Nadine Heubel:

Exactly. It's both. But now, Simon, I can't

Nadine Heubel:

let you off the hook. Because now we have to talk about the

Nadine Heubel:

elephant in the room. Why have you never vacation on a cruise

Nadine Heubel:

ship? And what do you think the cruise industry needs to do to

Nadine Heubel:

attract non cruisers like yourself, and really change the

Nadine Heubel:

perception of cruising?

Simon Black:

I knew that question would come at some

Simon Black:

point. The elephant in the room, absolutely!

Nadine Heubel:

I needed to ask!

Simon Black:

You did, you did. I can't avoid that. If you know

Simon Black:

me, I'm someone who's hyperactive. I'm someone that

Simon Black:

cannot sit still on a holiday. I really can't. I drive everyone

Simon Black:

crazy. I always have to be doing something. And I've always put

Simon Black:

cruising in that bucket that it's about sitting around

Simon Black:

relaxing, you know, sunbathing, eating, etc. And I love eating

Simon Black:

don't get me wrong on this point. But I simply love

Simon Black:

exploring, being free and outdoors. And I've been on a

Simon Black:

couple of ships. While they've been in port. I've always been

Simon Black:

blown away by the sheer size and scale but I've never yet taken

Simon Black:

that plunge to book a cruise and gone on a proper cruising

Simon Black:

experience and my perceptions of cruising since working travel

Simon Black:

have changed enormously. But I think there is a stigma,

Simon Black:

although I think it is changing there is a stigma attached to

Simon Black:

cruising industry has been working really hard at it that

Simon Black:

you know, it was just for old people, I'm going to be open and

Simon Black:

upfront about it. It was just for old people. But that stigma

Simon Black:

has definitely changed again over the last five years. I

Simon Black:

mean, I think that will rapidly change. I speak to many friends

Simon Black:

and family now you know, some of our young kids and the novel

Simon Black:

trying out cruising coming back, you know, we're raising reports

Simon Black:

about the same time you got you guys got you've got to try it.

Simon Black:

You've got to try it and and i will i am going to try it.

Simon Black:

I think hopefully maybe in 2023 It's on the bucket list to try.

Simon Black:

I'm super keen now. Like I talked about the airport

Simon Black:

environment. I think the cruise environment has just evolved you

Simon Black:

know, even over the last five years it's probably developing

Simon Black:

hugely Do you think I'm going to enjoy it? Can I ask?

Nadine Heubel:

I absolutely think you will enjoy it. Just a

Nadine Heubel:

little story on this because you had mentioned that you feel like

Nadine Heubel:

you need to do things and then you don't want to sit still. A

Nadine Heubel:

few years ago I was cruising with him Hindman lower grade

Nadine Heubel:

director because she was helping me on an RFP we were doing and

Nadine Heubel:

we were cruising on one of the latest cruise ships and she has

Nadine Heubel:

so much energy and I tell you she booked me for three days we

Nadine Heubel:

did everything on this trip we did even folding towels to

Nadine Heubel:

animals exercise. We went to the cinema we did roller coaster we

Nadine Heubel:

did everything and I tell you there was not one single minute

Nadine Heubel:

of boredom because we did so many things in three days so I

Nadine Heubel:

can promise you if you don't want to sit still on a sun chair

Nadine Heubel:

out there is enough for you to do!

Simon Black:

Certainly see that and I honestly I don't know in

Simon Black:

all reality why I haven't done it I mean many things tick my

Simon Black:

boxes on a cruise you know great foods and some great retail you

Simon Black:

know numbers and activities and you get you know first of all

Simon Black:

once you get to see obviously depends on the cruise and but

Simon Black:

you know gets you some great fabulous destinations. You know

Simon Black:

in each day you wake up and somewhere new that that is just

Simon Black:

sounds ideal to me. So yeah 2023.

Nadine Heubel:

I will remind you I will ask you again, at the end

Nadine Heubel:

of 2023, which screws you to, but I'm sure you will also tell

Nadine Heubel:

me about it when you book it. But what we also have to say,

Nadine Heubel:

you know, in fairness because I said, I'm going to grill you

Nadine Heubel:

while you have not been on a cruise, there has always been an

Nadine Heubel:

interest from your side in the cruise channel. So in June, you

Nadine Heubel:

attended the DFNI Cruise conference in Barcelona. And

Nadine Heubel:

actually we did a presentation together. So as a cruise return

Nadine Heubel:

newbie, or what surprised you most positively?

Simon Black:

Yes, I came away from that conference. As you

Simon Black:

know, that was a version of that the DFNI cruise conference, that

Simon Black:

was my first one I attended. I was so impressed by the level of

Simon Black:

innovation and change in the cruise sector. You know, I've

Simon Black:

come away from this. And I'm now actively talking about how the

Simon Black:

rest of the travel retail channel, you know, airlines and

Simon Black:

airports, they really need to look at what the cruise retail

Simon Black:

industry is doing and take some take some learning from it and

Simon Black:

take some note, the cruise retailers from from what we see,

Simon Black:

you know, as a business, and certainly, you know, they really

Simon Black:

have, since COVID become far more open to work with new

Simon Black:

brands, they've got a greater focus on sustainability and

Simon Black:

ethical strategies. And they're more willing to try new brands

Simon Black:

and products on board that they understand the consumer dynamics

Simon Black:

on each ship, and they tailor the product offerings and their

Simon Black:

solvents accordingly. You know, in airport retail in particular,

Simon Black:

I often bang on about, you know, we see the same old brands

Simon Black:

dominating the stores and airports. I absolutely love what

Simon Black:

the cruise retail sector is doing in some regards since

Simon Black:

COVID. The innovation levels in what they're offering as the as

Simon Black:

the onboard retail experiences is out there in the industry

Simon Black:

really is kind of leading the way in some regards in terms of

Simon Black:

change and doing things differently. And it for me,

Simon Black:

coming away from from that conference, it was so refreshing

Simon Black:

to see that.

Nadine Heubel:

Thank you. That's great that you say this. But now

Nadine Heubel:

as we have talked about the positive impact you saw the

Nadine Heubel:

cruise retail industry is having what do you see as the biggest

Nadine Heubel:

untapped opportunity for cruise retail?

Simon Black:

I'm not as experienced in cruising nowhere

Simon Black:

near experience is experienced in the cruising challenge unity.

Simon Black:

But in my opinion, there's a couple of areas, I think the as

Simon Black:

I've just said, you know that the cruise industry is making

Simon Black:

some some great advances, especially compared to some of

Simon Black:

the other travel retail channels. However, I understand

Simon Black:

there are still some legacy business or commercial models

Simon Black:

that exist between cruise ship owners and the cruise retailers.

Simon Black:

And I think this needs to change fast. Otherwise, you know, the

Simon Black:

cruise retailers won't be able to provide, you know, amazing

Simon Black:

retail experiences that are going to start popping up in and

Simon Black:

you know, domestic little domestic retail market.

Simon Black:

Retailers and brands, you know, margins are eroding globally

Simon Black:

fast, you know, the global supply chain in the cost of

Simon Black:

living challenge that we're all facing globally, you know, is is

Simon Black:

really, really now starting to bite and hurt retailers margins.

Simon Black:

And, you know, sadly with some of the old commercial model that

Simon Black:

still in use include retail, I think is going to limit some

Simon Black:

extent, the range and rec for brands and the experience that

Simon Black:

can be offered on board. And it is changing, I do see it

Simon Black:

changing, which is fantastic. And you're new and you're seeing

Simon Black:

a new approach. And you can see that new approach and some of

Simon Black:

the new ships, because in the retail the cruise retailers have

Simon Black:

been able to deliver probably retail experiences that have

Simon Black:

never been able to be offered before under the old models. But

Simon Black:

I still think there are models out there knitting in your

Simon Black:

novella know that they do need to change and to enable this to

Simon Black:

happen.

Nadine Heubel:

You know, this is the good thing. I'll be more on

Nadine Heubel:

the neutral side. That's what I like now for being on the

Nadine Heubel:

consultancy. advisory side, I think this is the moment where

Nadine Heubel:

we, as the more neutral party, we can make comments like this.

Nadine Heubel:

And we can really challenge existing models maybe far easier

Nadine Heubel:

than the retailer. So cruise liners or vendors can because we

Nadine Heubel:

are not directly involved. So thank you for bringing this up.

Simon Black:

You're absolutely right Nadine and I mean, you're

Simon Black:

spot on, you know, that's one of the aspects I love. And I've

Simon Black:

done airport retailing, I've done work for brands running

Simon Black:

their businesses and airports. And I absolutely love the jobs

Simon Black:

that we do now I think I absolutely you know, we see all

Simon Black:

the dynamics, you know, the either the cruise or the airport

Simon Black:

side or the airline side, you see it from the brand side, you

Simon Black:

see from the operator side and, and we sit there and we get

Simon Black:

great visibility and, and I remember if I was back in my

Simon Black:

airport days, you do to some extent have you blinkers on you

Simon Black:

don't see all those other kind of factors in play. And

Simon Black:

likewise, if you're a retailer, you're going you're weighing

Simon Black:

your retailer blinkers. And, and I think, you know, we have a

Simon Black:

great role to play in this industry. You know, we're

Simon Black:

sharing and trying to bring everyone together to improve

Simon Black:

this industry. But you're right, my second part was really about

Simon Black:

you know, I think the cruise retail is doing some of this but

Simon Black:

it's greater and faster investment in their own digital

Simon Black:

ecosystems. You know, future consumers and even more even

Simon Black:

consumers now you know, they are expecting a higher level of

Simon Black:

digitalized pre planning for their shopping consumers will

Simon Black:

want to have more than just some visibility of the range and

Simon Black:

offer and choice of brands and products available before they

Simon Black:

get on that boat. Click and collect is becoming increasingly

Simon Black:

an everyday occurrence. And I think cruise retailing has got

Simon Black:

to adapt to digital solutions like pre ordering, you know, no

Simon Black:

touch options onward delivery to destinations globally, you know

Simon Black:

is going to be expected a standard. Many consumers it'll

Simon Black:

be more common for their purchases to arrive at their

Simon Black:

destinations before they do buying what you want, when you

Simon Black:

want it is going to become so easy you know, it's becoming

Simon Black:

easier already increasingly easy now, you know, but it's going to

Simon Black:

become even easier in the future that I think cruise retailers

Simon Black:

are going to need to start thinking of new ways to address

Simon Black:

this challenge on board shops are could become more like

Simon Black:

showrooms, you know, places to see and touch and feel products

Simon Black:

but not necessarily to purchase and take away there you know,

Simon Black:

the transaction could place a number of touch points maybe

Simon Black:

back in their cabin on the cruise app, maybe after the

Simon Black:

cruise is finished, maybe they're sat at home last week

Simon Black:

off the ship thinking I really wish I bought that product they

Simon Black:

can go back online and buy it and have that delivered to their

Simon Black:

home. This has got to happen you know this new you know,

Simon Black:

connected way of consuming products I think it's going to

Simon Black:

is going to necessitate a change in the business model you know,

Simon Black:

sales in the shop will no longer necessarily be the best measure

Simon Black:

of a stores performance you know, and maybe the business

Simon Black:

model is got to change in this way you know, maybe it's you

Simon Black:

know, sales is measured as you know contacts footfall

Simon Black:

interactions. I mean, this is where investment for for cruise

Simon Black:

ship retailers and cruise ships needs to be made.

Nadine Heubel:

Absolutely no thank you for sharing this as

Nadine Heubel:

well. Yeah. Simon last question for you before we go to our

Nadine Heubel:

rapid fire questions, in your opinion, what can Seatrade do to

Nadine Heubel:

support really the cruise retail industry to thrive?

Simon Black:

Seatrade is a super impressive organization I think

Simon Black:

the development of a retail and commercial channel within their

Simon Black:

kind of you know organization is absolutely the right move. The

Simon Black:

retail and the F&B and beverage offer you know is an extremely

Simon Black:

important component of for cruising market I think it

Simon Black:

absolutely needs to be viewed holistically and integrated into

Simon Black:

the wider cruise industry and Seatrade Is this the perfect

Simon Black:

organization to bring together all you know all the key

Simon Black:

decision makers teams and businesses involved and in

Simon Black:

cruise together in one place and you know the retail community

Simon Black:

within cruising within Seatrade is only going to thrive as being

Simon Black:

part of the whole wider you know cruise industries as a whole I

Simon Black:

think.

Nadine Heubel:

We will definitely take this into

Nadine Heubel:

consideration when we are working on building this retail

Nadine Heubel:

presence within the Seatrade events and Seatrade

Nadine Heubel:

organization. This was amazing. Thank you for all the input!

Simon Black:

Well I hope people are still listening!

Nadine Heubel:

You're definitely gonna win the prize for the

Nadine Heubel:

longest episode but I'm not surprised about this I think

Nadine Heubel:

this was for me already clear that when I knew I you agree to

Nadine Heubel:

follow my invitation or accept my invitation I know this is

Nadine Heubel:

gonna be a long episode but this is great because you always have

Nadine Heubel:

great things to say. So ready for the rapid fire questions and

Nadine Heubel:

before I ask the questions I also have to say that I had to

Nadine Heubel:

modify them of course a little bit because for you as our non

Nadine Heubel:

cruiser or I'm going to call you our soon to be cruiser so

Nadine Heubel:

therefore the questions for you what is your favorite holiday

Nadine Heubel:

destination?

Simon Black:

Anywhere I can ski.

Nadine Heubel:

Active or lazy vacation?

Simon Black:

Oh, it's got to be active.

Nadine Heubel:

Buffet, or in room breakfast?

Simon Black:

In room.

Nadine Heubel:

But this is very lazy.

Simon Black:

Yeah, but I prefer a la carte. Not buffet.

Nadine Heubel:

Okay. So what was the last product you bought in

Nadine Heubel:

travel retail?

Simon Black:

Oh, that's last week. I bought some more Hermes

Simon Black:

perfume. Very classic.

Nadine Heubel:

And where will your first cruise take you?

Simon Black:

South America love to cruise around South America

Simon Black:

do they do those cruises?

Nadine Heubel:

They do, yes but this is very exquisite. And last

Nadine Heubel:

question for you which brand currently not in travel retail

Nadine Heubel:

should definitely be there?

Simon Black:

Loci are the vegan sneaker brand that we work with

Simon Black:

Loci I mean such a fabulous brand. And the story about them

Simon Black:

is absolutely fabulous. You know every pair of sneakers that they

Simon Black:

produce is taken, you know 20 bottles of plastic out of the

Simon Black:

ocean. Every component of this product has been fully

Simon Black:

sustainably made and the whole ethos around this brand is just

Simon Black:

amazing. So my answer there is Loci definitely.

Nadine Heubel:

Okay, perfect. Thank you. We did it. Yay. Thank

Nadine Heubel:

you so much for being on the show. Simon. Thank you. Thank

Nadine Heubel:

you for having me. And thank you for Seatrade as well. Right,

Nadine Heubel:

back to work now Nadine, no more slacking on the podcast.

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Seatrade Cruise Talks
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