The Retail Wave Makers | Chris Harrington, Anglo Eastern Leisure Management

Nadine Heubel: 00:00:00

Hello to everybody from around the world. Welcome to the Retail Wave Makers, a Seatrade Ccruise Talks podcast. My name is Nadine Heubel. I'm the Global SVP revenue at Reklaim. Yes, I do have a new job. But today I'm talking to you as the retail ambassador for Seatrade. Retail has been going from strength to strength in the cruise industry. And I'm grateful for Seatrade to have acknowledged this development by creating a retail Ambassador role, which I am very honored to have been appointed to. Part of my responsibility has been to create further awareness for this exciting sector amongst cruise industry peers. And what better way to do it and creating our own podcast The Retail Wave Makers podcast was supposed to be a miniseries ended up being much more than this. We are now already in our third season. This season is all about the heroes on board the ships and their interaction directly or indirectly, with retail. We have a lineup of amazing guests. And we will hear from them firsthand about life on board their interaction with retail and their view on cruise retail. And we also get a little personal as we always do with our rapid fire questions at the end of the podcast. Today, we will learn about the responsibilities of the Hotel Director onboard. I understand that this is one of the most senior roles on board a cruise ships. Really big hotels on land have maybe 500/600 rooms, a hotel director on a cruise ship can be in charge of about 3000 cabins and all the operations linked to them. I'm looking forward to discussing with our guest today, how as the hotel director retail is integral to the daily responsibilities of this position. And we have found a very special guests for this episode. Chris Harrington is a hotel director working for Anglo Eastern Leisure Management, and is currently assigned to Expedition West and Ocean Adventure, which service the polar regions. Chris boasts experience in multiple industry sectors from ocean to river

Nadine Heubel: 00:00:15

to expedition and has a vast amount of operational experience in both mainstream and niche commercial arenas. Chris is crew experience centric and practices humble leadership, he came up through the ranks of F&B, where his personal passion for viticulture developed. Chris, I'm so happy to have you on the show. And just for everybody, as you can imagine, we are just already lucky that we got the connection going. So even if there is a little delay in in us speaking, I hope you all understand we didn't want a missed opportunity to talk to Chris while he's in Antarctica. So before we actually jump into your job as director, it would be really great to learn more about Anglo Eastern leisure management, as maybe not everybody's really familiar with the company. So what is your business model? How many ships Do you have? Which destinations do you serve besides Antarctica, and anything else you can think of our listeners should hear about?

Chris Harrington: 00:00:24

Yeah, we're not we're not really a household name. I wouldn't say in the cruise industry... certainly the Leisure side. Anglo Eastern is the parent company, they manage about 700 ships as a third party ship management company. So they have mainly containerships, bulk carriers, mainly involved in the cargo freight side of the industry, Anglo Eastern leisure management is our little parts of the, of the Empire are as it were, we're quite a small, small company with five vessels that we that we manage. So we we offer comprehensive hospitality and leisure driven management services. So we effectively you know, in a fundamental point of view, we we manage the vessels hotel, we have a Anglo Eastern Cruise Management who manage the technical aspects of the ships. So the deck and engine but we run the hotels with, we're very much turnkey solutions based. We, are very big into well, obviously, hospitality services, menu engineering, and we create we are trying to optimize our ability to to generate quality products offer a quality product to their clients, and obviously generating revenues for themselves, so we were very much a third party. So we we have five vessels all around 4-5000 suns, all operating in polar regions mainly. And then we also have, we work with three charters, who charter the vessels. So those three are Quark Expeditions who I work with. Absolutely fantastic brand, real, authentic expedition service provider, and also Aurora Expeditions and Albatross, they charted the the four vessels, so we have great, great relationships with the charters, great relationships with the ship owners. So the job is a lot more, it's different to working on an owner operator cruise vessel, you're very much a part of the job is relationship building, and maintaining and influencing positively those relationships. So, you know, you're looking after the core guests, and you're looking after a ship that's owned by somebody else. So you

Chris Harrington: 00:02:40

know, it's a lot of relationship building. So yes, a lot of fun an Anglo Eastern are growing. But so if you're out there, and you need someone to manage your ship, don't go any further than Anglo Eastern pick up the phone.

Nadine Heubel: 00:02:53

I love it. Yes, exactly. I love to learn about learn about Anglo, Eastern, you know, like talking about that you have 700 ships, and in total, and almost most of it is cargo, and then then you'll find the five ships you are managing. And it also reminds me a little bit, you know, in retail most of the time, it's a concession based business as well. So in retail, when when when I was kind of in America, as we were also always a third party operator, on on the big vessels. And as you said, relation, ship management relation building was always a big, big part of the responsibility. So very, very similar. But now I would really love to hear more about what exactly what is the scope of responsibility of a hotel director. So how many different departments do you oversee? And how is your job different from a hotel director on land?

Chris Harrington: 00:03:50

Yeah, yeah, it's great question Nadine! I mean, the hotel director is responsible for the entire commercial business onboard the ship, so all the commercial side of the business, all the operational departments, so housekeeping, food and beverage, also guest services. The chief personal report sent to me, she takes care of the accounting the administrative side on a roll. We also have hotel controller. So we're very traditional in our Manning strategy. So we have a hotel controller who ensures always control the provision of all the items we need to run a hotel successfully. So we also have obviously f&b which the chef, the bar manager and maitre d. So we're not directly responsible for onboard this vessel for the retail outlet but we do work in harmony with them. So the retail on here is the semi concession. The expedition company, obviously, operating the boutique, and we're very much working in harmony with them on the accounting side of it. So my sort of day to day involvement with with the shop on board, now we're making we have 125 guests, Nadine. We're taking about $14,000 in the boutique on a nine day voyage. So it's about 12 bucks per person per day. So we're not we're not far off, what probably the main premium Ocean operators are achieving!

Nadine Heubel: 00:05:12

Yeah, that's pretty good.

Chris Harrington: 00:05:15

So, yeah, it is it is. I mean, it's not up there with with the nice operators like Seabourn, Silversea, who have upwards of 25 dollars a day. But they're obviously charging a lot more premium ticket price. But we so yeah, I'm really involved in the accounting, the nitty gritty stuff, not necessarily in sales. But over my years, I've been involved a lot with driving sales and retail, the thing that I really wanted to talk about is how sell director, if you had a room with 1000, hotel directors, and you asked them, How many of them came through a retail background? You probably won't have many put their hand up. So there's, there's a little bit of a lack of skill set. So hotel directors on the larger operators really to lean on their onboard revenue directors for that expertise. Most hotel directors came through, you know, conventional, modern departments of the hotel, housekeeping guest services, food and beverage. So it's a really interesting point. Because the industries of retail, and hospitality are very different. But on a cruise ship that comes together, and they're fused together. And the retail partners or shop managers that the leaders in the retail, more often than not reporting to the hotel director. So it's that little bit of skill set that maybe they don't have. And that's why I think you see these commercial positions that they've come on board, in certain cruise ships like onboard revenue director, some some of the operators have brought associate hotel directors, who are purely responsible for commercial output. So that's, I think, how that how the industry has reacted over the over the decades, certainly, I've been associated with it. But yeah, I mean, we're obviously responsible for revenue, and a large part of the revenue that's generated on the vessel I'm on now is in a boutique. So and it's only a small little area, but 12 bucks a day is, is more than what we what we produce on liquor, which is the other main

Chris Harrington: 00:07:15

revenue stream. So we find out, I find down here, there's there's two types of purchase. There's the convenience purchase for an item that they need for the expedition. So it may be clothing, thermal, it's a lot colder than they thought. So thermal clothing, warm clothing, hats, gloves, things like that, a convenience sale that they need, actually for the expedition itself, or the 'memory trigger', which I call it, which is an item they'll buy, that they can take home that will trigger their memories of the wonderful expedition they had. So it may even be something as simple as a wall charts, with with with the navigational charts that we sell, they'll put it in a nice frame when they get home. And every time they walk past it, it triggers those memories of the penguins and the whales, the beautiful scenery in the icebergs. So, you know, the day to day to answer your question, but day to day is very much administrative. Not not necessarily promoting sales itself, the core team, the expedition team look after that.

Nadine Heubel: 00:08:22

I think you made a very good point. Yeah, and you made a very good point. And thank you, thank you for you know, thank you for sharing all all of this really great, great information, and maybe trying to dissect it a little bit into like smaller backup because you gave so many great information. I think one is is really great information talking about that the hotel director of, of, let's say have a bigger vessel with 1000s and 1000s of cabins, needs then specialists in his or her team like the revenue manager like an associated hotel director to really ensure attention to detail while I while I think you you need to be kind of a generalist and know everything when when you are on a smaller vessel. You wear many many more many more hats because there's just not the space for having all these different functions and functions and specialized is this maybe a correct assessment of mine?

Chris Harrington: 00:09:30

Yeah, yeah. Nadine! Absolutely. Absolutely on the money. The other thing, to go back to your question about the difference between land based and shipboard you, you have a fundamental difference in that you have to maintain the crew welfare and the well being of the group. It's not like you can pop off the ship and go home... you have to understand that mental health is a big one. You've always got to maintain you've got an eye on the mental health working in isolated regions for a long period of time. So you need to make sure that that that not just doing a great job, but they've got a great life on board. And you must always try hard to enhance the crew experience. So and that's maybe something you don't necessarily do on land where folks go home at the end of the shift and destress at home?

Nadine Heubel: 00:10:17

Absolutely. Because I mean, yeah, you they have to decompress on this on this on the ship and they are together all the time. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a very important point. Thank you for sharing. And now going back to retail. I mean, when when you mentioned that you that you do a $12 PPD, I think that's that is a very good number. So congratulations on on this. And also very interesting what you were saying talking about that your sales as paid into two categories. One is the something they need on the cruise because they didn't expect it to be THAT cold, I think is what this would definitely have happened to me happens to me all the time, no matter where I go. I always underestimate how cool it can get. I think this is because I'm living so long in Miami now. And then the other one is really taking this this memory back home. So I'm sure that you sell a lot of plush penguins and plush rails. Am I right?

Chris Harrington: 00:11:14

Yeah, absolutely. The toys fly out.

Nadine Heubel: 00:11:19

Yeah, because every everybody wants to wants to take take home a little a little penguin. But what I wanted to talk to you now as well, a little bit more, we talked about your current retail, but with your vast experience and having having been ocean going for so many, many years. At can can you remember any retail initiative where you really thought wow, this is amazing, that's something I want to I would like to show hear on the podcast now.?

Chris Harrington: 00:11:50

Yeah, yeah, when I was with MSC for a short period, again, a great brand wonderful company to work for. I was your club director of the Yacht Club. As your club director, I was there with the premium guests who were in this sort of ship within a ship. So a very, very private personal premium area of the vessel. So we used to, with the onboard revenue director, work in harmony to to organize kind of VIP events, invitation only events, where certain expert retail advisors, you know, maybe fine jewelry or fine watches, would would would go up to the Yacht Club. And you'd kind of stroke the guests egos a little bit, you make them feel special, bring in the experts with with various models might be an Amiga or BrightLink, or, you know, a fine piece of jewelry, or various bits and pieces that they bring, and showcase these items, and invite them under an invitation that RSVP invitation will actually determine and define the discounts on the invitation. So don't just say I'll get we're having a great sale, come down and see us... tell them is 20% of that timepiece, 30%, whatever it is, and get them into an environment where you can control it. Because at the end of the day, if you look at a ship, Nadine, everybody's fighting for the same revenue. So it's not like shopping. It's not like a shopping mall on land where everybody's in competition. The ship is the ship that everybody's really under the same banner. So everybody's fighting for the same revenue, the casino want it, the speciality restaurants want it, the spa wants it. And the shops wants it and the boutiques on board the retail. So what I found works successfully is going after the high The High Rollers, if you like... the clients in the suites and premium suites, who, who's paid those big ticket prices, who you would assume would have that expendable income. And you get into that, because, you know, the boutiques are more often than not on your conventional copy and paste cruise ship

Chris Harrington: 00:13:53

or on the Promenade Deck, they're not difficult to find. So the passengers can find it easily and they can get in there and spend. But I think the spend that you want is the 5, 6, 7,000 dollar watches the $15,000 units of jewelry, an upwards and setting a scene and in creating environment where people can feel comfortable, they feel private, they feel special. You can make a good sale. And those things used to work really well. I'd actually give you an example of that Versus expedition. We a lot of people forget to bring binoculars. So we have some high premium binoculars on board up to $3,000. So we showcase these. Yeah, we showcase these binoculars on day one and two of the voyage while we're at sea moving down to the Antarctica and we show them how to use it. So it's almost like a familiarization of the of the products. And we get a lot of sales off the bat. Not always a $3,000 pair. But we do some a lot of binocular doing it that way because it's something people forget to bring. So yeah, that's a kind of a small example of Expedition, versus ocean. But those sales used to work really well. I mean, we used to have small point of sale units in the Yacht Club, where items would be displayed by the retailers. And, you know, that's one way of hooking them but, inviting them and making them feel special really does have an impact!

Nadine Heubel: 00:15:23

Yeah, I love this. This what you just described, as you said, really making people special and hyper personalizing it, inviting them to a special location where then the experts are speaking to them. Yeah, I think once you are making this emotional connection the same way you do it with the binoculars because it's an emotional connection, you explain your your guests the advantages and benefits of buying this particular binoculars. And then yeah, I think if I, if I had the budget, I would maybe also spend two or 3000. Knowing that then this is a lifetime, lifetime experience anyway, and then I can enhance it by a wonderful product. So yeah, I very much like like this idea.

Nadine Heubel: 00:16:20

And, Chris, you were talking earlier about because yourself you are also a third party operator, that really relationship management and making sure that you are there and that you are really be a good partner with with the with the company who travels to your ships. I also wanted to ask you then, you know, based on on this knowledge, what do you think what makes a good retail partner? What does it take to to be really successful as a retailer on board a cruise ship?

Chris Harrington: 00:17:18

Yes, a wonderful question Nadine! I think synergy. Synergy is really important. So the first thing as a hotel director, I really think you need to create synergy. You need your retailer, your retail partner to feel part of the family on board, not just a concession there, who's there for one purpose, to provide a retail experience and to drive revenue for a concessionaire. So you want them to feel part of the team. You've got to invite them to your meetings, you've got to get them in there. You've got to talk to them about your net promoter score, your guest journey, your guest service ratings, get them involved with with with with everybody in that in that town hall meeting with I mean, I've been on big ships and hotel director meetings, we've got 25 people, art directors, retailers, f&b chefs, shore excursion, casino managers, and it's a big, it's a big group of people, all striving for one for one common goal with which is service excellence, and commercial and commercially successful business on board. So it's, it's, it's having that synergy and bringing them in to the team and making them feel part of the team, not just a concessionaire, which can happen, and they can feel a little bit isolated. And from a retailer perspective, it's, it's, it's good incentives for the sales agents, that work, you know, so that puts money in their pockets when they make great sales. It's great replenishment is great stock handling. It's it's training, it's product knowledge. If you look at food and beverage and retail are very similar in many ways. product definition is the first thing you do. And then product knowledge is the second thing. Does the sales agent know what is selling? Does he know anything about it? Now, obviously, I've watched as soon as you have jewelry specialists, on board, camera specialists or whatever, photo hub, but you need you need that, that that product knowledge. So you need to have a very, very good sturdy training

Chris Harrington: 00:19:19

program behind you your brand. So you know that three key things, but I think you need people who are cruise-ie. You need sales agents. On that last sea day, when the trestle tables come out, and everybody's out there selling the duty free, and the mid range watches and the handbags and scarves or whatever you need fun people are out there, grabbing them on the promenade and saying don't go past me without coming and having a look! You need a retail manager who's in charge who's got energy. I think from those two perspectives, that's what I look for.

Nadine Heubel: 00:20:00

Great, thank you. And yes, as you said, also, I like when you said to we're cruising that people need to be cruise-ie, because cruise closing is definitely not for it not for everybody. I think it's it's this wonderful group of people who decide to dedicate their life to be on cruise ships and really engage with guests and make guests feel happy. So I agree with you this this this is there is something special, and it's not definitely not for for everybody. So I have a last question for you. Because... sorry go ahead!

Chris Harrington: 00:20:37

The other thing I didn't mention is, the retail organizations need to set realistic targets that are achievable! Because if not, you've got no motivation, Because you know, you're never going to achieve it. Yeah, they make the target achievable. And do your homework.

Nadine Heubel: 00:20:55

Yeah, that's a good one with this, because, man, this is actually a good segue into my last question. And maybe this has already been the answer to the last question is, yeah, if there was one thing you could change about retail, or about the concessionaires or however, what you want to approach it? What what what would you change the one thing you would change from a retail approach perspective?

Chris Harrington: 00:21:17

I would allow an opportunity for more Ultra accurate data about previous guest spending habits. So a database that retail partners, retail managers, can dive into, and find out that Mr. And Mrs. Bernstein spent 20,000 bucks on a watch on their voyage last year, in the Caribbean, on whatever vessel.. they booked again, they booked in a premium cabin that you can get in there. And that information is power, the more knowledge you have, of your of your high, -high rollers is more of a phrase for Casino- but you know what I mean... premium guests spend big money, who have got money that you want to take it out of their pockets and put it in your tail. So if you know that this, this individuals or these individuals have the spending habits, you can get in there early guarantee a VIP event and say, Hey, how was that beautiful what she bought 11 months ago on on the ship.

Nadine Heubel: 00:22:18

Love it!

Chris Harrington: 00:22:20

And, and then they feel special. Again, it's all about making people feel special, and loved and valued. And then, you know, there might you might not get a sale off the back of it. But the other thing is his target people who are on very, very significant landmark 50th wedding anniversaries, you know, if they've booked a 50th wedding anniversary, and they pay 10,000 bucks for a really nice cabin, then you go after them. If you've got someone who's paid $149 for an inside cabin, you're probably not going to get a Breitling out of them. So it's understanding who's who, and who's on board and spending your energy trying to get the big sale. And then and then let the let the final ofsea day the voyage, take care of all that, the duty free and everything else itself. Because you're in the right position on board, you're on the Promenade. And you've got you've got a captive audience. But those VIP events, I can't stress that enough. Nadine, they really do work.

Nadine Heubel: 00:23:14

Agreed. And I think you made a very important point about data. And I think there could be a full podcast episode just talking about data because I'm also very passionate about it. And as you said, data is power. And the more we know about the guests on board, of course without breaching any data privacy privacy rules, but the more we know about the guests on board, the more we can target them the more they are going to spend because the more they feel seen and heard and emotionally connected. So that's really thank you for for this! Chirs, this was this was great. Now I absolutely understand why at the beginning you said you know hotel directors of the bigger cruise ships might be a little bit further further away from retail. But in your case I can definitely attest that retail is close to you that you're very hands on and that you have a lot of knowledge about retail so thank you so much for sharing all this. But now we also want to know a little bit more about Chris as a as a person and not just as a hotel director. Are you ready for the rapid fire question?

Chris Harrington: 00:24:30

Perfect. Yeah!

Nadine Heubel: 00:24:32

So what is your favorite cruise destination?

Chris Harrington: 00:24:36

Oh Papeete, Tahiti!

Nadine Heubel: 00:24:39

Wow. That sounds amazing.

Nadine Heubel: 00:24:43

What is your favorite?

Chris Harrington: 00:24:46

Sorry, carry on.

Nadine Heubel: 00:24:46

Tell me No, no, you tell me.

Chris Harrington: 00:24:49

I'm gonna give you two, one for ocean and one for river. Avignon in France, Absolutely.

Nadine Heubel: 00:24:55

Yeah. Yeah, this one I this one I have an opinion about to never been to Tahiti, but Avignon it definitely would be on my list as well. Then favorite location to unwind on a cruise ship?

Chris Harrington: 00:25:10

My cabin!

Nadine Heubel: 00:25:18

I love it! This is the first time someone has answered this in the time we have been doing this and it makes complete sense! Do you prefer buffet or a la carte breakfast?

Chris Harrington: 00:25:28

A la carte every time!

Nadine Heubel: 00:25:32

Bingo or trivia?

Chris Harrington: 00:25:35

Tricky one... trivia, trivia, quizzes.

Nadine Heubel: 00:25:38

Okay. Okay. And do you have a special theme?

Nadine Heubel: 00:25:48

A trivia theme? A favorite one?

Chris Harrington: 00:25:51

Oh, yeah. Medieval History.

Unknown: 00:25:55

Oh,

Nadine Heubel: 00:25:55

Oh, oh, wow. That sounds very difficult. I think I would I would fail! Great. And then I have I have a last one for you. Because I had to Google this when when when you send me your your little bio, and you wrote about viticulture.... I had to google it. And I think maybe everybody knows but I didn't. So maybe you can tell us, what is viticulture.

Chris Harrington: 00:26:23

Yeah I study viticulture which is the wine verification is production of wine. Viticulture is is all about wine. And I invest in fine wines. As a kind of hobby. Yeah, and I study. Yeah, viticulture.... wines. I'm undertaking my WSCT level three in wines when I get home.

Nadine Heubel: 00:26:47

Oh, wow, that that is just amazing.

Chris Harrington: 00:26:51

I want to become a wine lecturer on the side, you know, a little side duty!

Nadine Heubel: 00:27:00

Great. So Chris, thank you so much. It was it was super insightful, amazing to talk to a hotel director who is currently in Antarctica and who loves wine and studies, studies, wine culture and wants to do lectures on wine and is at the same time super knowledgeable about retail. So Chris, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Chris Harrington: 00:27:26

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I really enjoyed speaking with you. And I'm glad we managed to stay connected as well. Yeah, that was that was a big achievement.

Nadine Heubel: 00:27:35

Yes. Yay. All right. Thank you, Chris.

Chris Harrington: 00:27:38

My pleasure. Take care.

Nadine Heubel: 00:27:40

You too!